[hmesker]

I think it’;s even better to understand the origin of this chinese character (several/few thousands ago), than to understand that particular form of character 4 to 5 hundreds years ago.

I agree, but as you can see on the web page I mentioned I already looked in to that. But the last few weeks I get quite some questions about this specific form. I can understand that, because it is a bit silly when you see this character in so many books and nobody knows where it comes from! Frustrating too. That is why I want to find out.
Best,
Harmen.

[hmesker]

[ 這篇文章最後由hmesker在 2005/09/03 03:12pm 第 1 次編輯 ]

[ 這篇文章最後由hmesker在 2005/09/03 03:12pm 第 1 次編輯 ]
I know this explanation (although I have my reservations about it, see the picture on http://itcn.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=122&Itemid=3), but that is not what I am looking for. I am looking for the origin of this specific form of the character 易.

Best,
Harmen.

[hmesker]

Who can tell me where this elegant form of the character 易 comes from:

There are many books here in the West which mention this symbol, Richard Wilhelm started it I believe, but nobody knows where it comes from. I have read somewhere that it is a from a stone inscription from the 17th century. Can anybody point me to the exact origin of this symbol?
Best wishes,
Harmen.

[hmesker]

I have this book.
It is not the original source.
Where did you get this book ?
Suppose you cann’;t get it in Europe.
It is better to have the book 河洛理數 compiled by 孫國中

I have two other books about the 河洛理數:
– 实用河洛理数全集
– 河洛理数推命学
Is it still best to have the book you mentioned? Through internet everything is available in Europe.

Author and title please ? What the author said in his/her book ?

I downloaded an introduction to 河洛理数 at this forum, a pdf – sorry, I can’;t find it on my pc, I think I have it on my laptop. It said that the odd months are yang, and the even months are yin. Sherrill & Chu say the same in their book The Astrology of the I Ching. Only 吳明修 says something different, that is why I asked.

(1) 時令 (寒暑)
用來 計算 元堂爻
(2) 月令 (奇偶)
用來 計算 流月卦

Yes, that agrees with what I have. But when you change the 先天卦 into the 後天卦, there are three hexagrams which do not follow the normal rules, namely hexagram 3, 29 and 39 (p. 35 of 吳明修’;s book). It is exactly here where 吳明修 differs from, say, Sherril & Chu. What rules should I follow here?
Best wishes,
Harmen.

[hmesker]

Sorry for my late reply. Shenshufan, the computer program you referred to does not work on my computer. It literally does nothing – I can install it, but when I try to run it nothing happens :-(.
My birth data is: august 17, 1966; time 05:00 am in Groningen, The Netherlands. Thank you very much for your assistance!
Best wishes,
Harmen.

[hmesker]

吳明修《易經推命學》說 陽令是冬至後 – 夏至前 (十一月 – 四月), 陰令是夏至後 – 冬至前 (五月 – 十月). 別的作者說陽令是單月， 陰令是雙月。誰對，誰不對？
Harmen.

[hmesker]

Chinese Calendar is lunisolar: year is based on solar cycle (~365.25 days) with 4 seasons, yet lunar cycles are also incorporated into the calendar (12 new moons in 1 solar year, 13 new moon in leap year). So there is 2 ways to define month within 1 year, one basing on solar motion (節氣月, starts with a “節” date, e.g. “申月”, the 7th 節氣月, starts on 立秋), the other basing on lunar cycle ( “七月”, the 7th lunar month, is the 7th new moon). Usually (not in leap year), the same numbered 節氣月 and lunar month has overlapping period.

Ah yes, that was indeed something that confused me and made it hard to understand what was referred to, the fact that the 7th 節氣月 overlapped with the 7th lunar month. Thanks for clarifying.

“但按月卦節氣。如本年七月二日午時立秋。
即水雷屯卦初九爻。即將初二日午時開始。”
如本年七月二日 午時立秋。
— 2nd day of 7th lunar month (of chinese lunisolar calendar) is solerterm 立秋.
即水雷屯卦初九爻。即將初二日午時開始。”
– the date: Noon of 2nd day (of 7th lunar month) is the start of next 節氣月 (most probably “申月”), and 水雷屯卦初九爻 is the daily hexagram for that day

Aaaaah, NOW I get it! The book referred to the 2nd day of the 7th LUNAR month, even though the hexagram for the month is the hexagram of a 節氣月 (I do not dare to say ‘;solar month’; anymore). Right?
This does not take away the problem of the amount of days in a 節氣月 and how to link this with the system for computing the daily hexagrams, but at least it takes away a big problem for me. Thanks.

See, the lunar and solar part of the Chinese lunisolar calendar is both involved here at the same time.
In 河洛理數 text, the “solar” month 節氣月 is sometimes used interchangeably with the “lunar” counterpart.
e.g. in vol2
晉卦
《乾宮》，四世卦，屬二月。….
It should be 卯月 (節氣月 terminology), yet written as 二月 (typically a lunar month terminology, vague!!).
On text of 河洛理數, “月” sometimes refer to 節氣月, sometimes lunar one.

And THAT is what is confusing. But thanks for helping me out. This really helps. Thank you very much.
Best wishes,
Harmen.

[hmesker]

I’;m sorry, I think I am confusing things a bit by talking about ‘;solar months’;, when I mean 節氣.

All of the 八字 are based on 節氣月，Neither 太陽月 nor 太陰月。

There are no astrology systems which use the lunar calendar? Is it safe to assume that when Chinese astrology books talk about 八字 they always refer to the solar calendar?

【流月】 七月 中孚 九二爻 (立秋起,處暑,白露前)
7th month means 7th 節氣月
But the second day of what?
The 1st day start from 立秋 + 0 day untill 立秋 + 1 day
The 2nd day start from 立秋 + 1 day untill 立秋 + 2 day
The 3rd day start from 立秋 + 2 day untill 立秋 + 3 day

I still don’;t get this. Why did in the example given in the 河洛理數 the first line of the hexagram start with the 2nd day? And still, the second day of what? In the example you gave the hexagram started with the first day (【流日】 第01-06日 井 初爻起), that seems more logical to me.

節氣月 might have 29 days or 31 days
How should we deal with this?
There are several different ways to solve this problem.
A good exercise for everybody. Try to solve it yourself.

I’;m sorry, but that does not help me. I can think of several ways to solve this, I can even think of other ways to derive at the daily hexagrams, but that is not my concern. I want to use the system in the original way, as it is intended to be. How does the 河洛理數 want me to deal with this? Or doesn’;t it have an answer to that? (if so that is also fine, but then at least I know that)

節氣月 answer all of your questions.

Maybe, but I don’;t understand its answers.
Best wishes,
Harmen.

[hmesker]

Dear Shenshufan,
Thank you very much for your replies. Your first post is amazing! Do you have a computer program for this?
Still a few questions though:
– when you calculate month hexagrams for a year, do they always start with 正月?
– If you calculate the month hexagrams for the first year of a person’;s life, what is then the first month you calculate? Suppose the person is born in september, would you still start with 正月 (when the person was not yet born at that time)?
– Is 正月 the same as 立春, and 二月 the same as 驚蟄, etc.?
– When you calculated the day hexagrams for the second month, 二月 坎 九二爻, you started with
【流日】 第01-06日 井 初爻起
Does this mean it starts with the first day of the 節氣? Is this always the case?
Sorry to bother you with so many questions, but I think I am finally getting somewhere. If you could send me more examples (preferably with the Western date for which you make them, then I can try to recalculate them myself and learn from that) I would really appreciate that. You can also e-mail them to me: harmen [at] itcn.nl. Thanks!
Thanks for explaining 銳山’;s question, again I learned something! I am not Chinese, just a plain Dutch guy. The URL of my website is here: http://www.itcn.nl. More info about me here http://www.itcn.nl/serendipity/pages/aboutme.html
多謝,
祝,
Harmen.

[hmesker]

wptan, thank you for your reply, much appreciated.

Use solar calendar rather than lunar one. 河洛理數 is derived from 四柱, which is solar-calendar based

But if I ask a Chinese for his 八字 they give me lunar based 八字. I agree that most forms of Chinese astrology use the solar calendar, and I would prefer that too, but then quite some material in the Heluo Lishu does not make sense to me. For instance, the text for the daily hexagram calculations says
“但按月卦節氣。如本年七月二日午時立秋。即水雷屯卦初九爻。即將初二日午時開始。”
If I understand correctly it says that “for instance, if 立秋 starts on the 2nd day of the the 7th month, the first line of the hexagram starts with the 2nd day.” But the second day of what? I can only understand it as the 2nd day of a lunar month, after all, the second day of a solar month would not make much sense because every solar term starts with the first day, of course.
Also, in the book the months are referred to with numbers – 正月， 二月, 三月 etc. As far as I know solar months where never numbered, they were only mentioned by their names. I can only see it as that they refer to lunar months.
Leap months surely pose a problem, but so does the solar calendar when we look at the daily hexagrams. If I understand you correctly, the 30 lines of the 5 hexagrams should cover the complete solar month. But most solar months have more then 30 days. Yet the Heluo Lishu specifically says ‘;one line for one day’;. How should we deal with this?
And: if the text talks about 正月, does it mean the first month of the year, or the first month of a person’;s year from birthday to birthday, in other words started counting from his day of birth?
Thanks for your help!
Best wishes,
Harmen.

[hmesker]

有沒有網友可幫忙?如沒網友幫忙,過幾天我有空補上,希望由網友來交流發揮.

我有網友， 可是他們都不認識《河洛理數》。在這兒我們有一本英文書叫《The Astrology of I Ching》， 是一個《河洛理數》翻譯， 可是我認為這本書有很多錯誤。

你是荷蘭藉中國裔人?

對不起， 我認識很少漢字。我看不懂你的問題。“藉” 和 “裔” 是什麼意思？

不知你們歐洲對我們中國易學及風水現在熾熱情度如何呢?可否說說?

在歐洲裡很多人學易經，有很多西文的翻譯，有的好，有的劣。不過， 最多人不知道易經慧心， 就知道占卜用法為了富。
祝,
Harmen.

[hmesker]

銳山兄，
多謝,但是你的畫片跟我的書裡一樣. 我看不懂:-(. 我不明白了為什麼用節氣。多節氣沒有三十日，可是這個辦法用五卦六爻，一共三十爻三十日。你有例子嗎？
祝,
Harmen.

[hmesker]

[ 這篇文章最後由hmesker在 2005/08/22 04:56pm 第 1 次編輯 ]

對不起, 我的中國話真不好， 我是荷蘭人。我有一個問題﹕
現在我學習《河洛理數》，但是我不明白算日卦的辦法。我看了吳明修《易經推命學》， 他說“必須按月卦節氣方不至有誤”。但是， 一個節氣沒有三十日。我看不懂。
很多書美說到算日卦的辦法。 為什麼？
而且，我要用陰歷還是陽歷？
我希望你們能幫助我。 多謝。
祝，
Harmen.